Dr. Oliver Sartor on the VISION Trial and Improving Care for Patients With mCRPC

Guest host Dr. Neeraj Agarwal, editor-in-chief of ASCO Daily News and director of the Genitourinary Cancers Program at the University of Utah Huntsman Cancer Institute, interviews Dr. Oliver Sartor, medical director of the Tulane Cancer Center in New Orleans, on the practice-changing VISION trial and its impact on the current treatment paradigm for mCRPC. Transcript ASCO Daily News: Welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast. Our topic today is the practice-changing VISION trial, a phase III trial of radioligand therapy in patients with metastatic castration-resistant prostate cancer. Our guest host, Dr. Neeraj Agarwal, the editor-in-chief of the ASCO Daily News and director of the Genitourinary Cancers Program at the University of Utah's Huntsman Cancer Institute, will speak with one of the trial's investigators, Dr. Oliver Sartor, the medical director of the Tulane Cancer Center and Laborde Professor for Cancer Research. Their full disclosures are available on the transcript of this episode, and disclosures relating to all episodes of the Daily News Podcast are available on our transcripts at asco.org/podcasts.   Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Hi, my name is Dr. Neeraj Agarwal. I am with Dr. Oliver Sartor. Today, we are going to discuss one of the practice-changing trials in the context of metastatic castration-resistant prostate cancer. Welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast, Dr. Sartor. Thanks for taking the time to be with us today.   Dr. Oliver Sartor: Thank you, Neeraj. A pleasure to be here.   Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: You recently published the primary results of the phase III VISION trial, which tested the efficacy of a novel radioligand therapy, Lutetium-177-PSMA-617, in men with metastatic castrate-resistant prostate cancer. Could you please tell us more about this compound and why you did this study?   Dr. Oliver Sartor:  So I'll start off with the compound itself. Radioligand therapy is a therapy that has a little warhead, and that warhead in this case is Lutetium-177. But it's guided by binding to PSMA. Now, PSMA is prostate-specific membrane antigen, and many of us are familiar with it, but some may not be. So PSMA is a protein expressed on the surface of most prostate cancer cells. Not all patients have it, but most do. And the ability of the PSMA Lutetium-177 to target the cancer was indicated in some preliminary studies, but they have not been to phase III. So the purpose of the phase III VISION trial was really to design a definitive study to look at overall survival, in particular, to determine whether or not this agent was truly active. And the good news is, it is truly active. And in the VISION trial, we were able to not only extend life with an overall survival benefit, haz ratio 0.62, but there was also a time-to-progression image-based radiographic progression-free survival. It was also much in favor of the PSMA Lutetium with a haz ratio of 0.4. So whether or not you look at time to cancer progression or whether or not you look at overall survival, this is an effective therapy. It, of course, does have some adverse side effects. We can talk more about that, but it's reasonably well tolerated. And I do anticipate that there'll be an FDA approval as a consequence of these pivotal findings.   Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: These are wonderful results and news for our patients. Please tell me how it will affect the current treatment paradigm of our patients with mCRPC. As we know, you selected patients who had disease progression on chemotherapy with taxanes and novel hormonal therapy. But real-world studies, many of which were published by you, have shown that docetaxel is received by a minority of patients with metastatic prostate cancer. So how do you envision treating your patients who do not want to be treated with chemotherapy as many of my patients do? How will you apply Lutetium-177 in their treatment?   Dr. Oliver Sartor:  Well, Neeraj, I think that we're going to be restricted in accordance with the label that the FDA provides. And I fully expect that the label will include a progression after treatment with docetaxel or at least one taxane-based therapy because that's the way the VISION trial was constructed. Now, you're raising a very critical point, and that is, what about the individuals that do not want to receive or are ineligible to receive a chemotherapy such as docetaxel? And for those individuals, we now have a new trial called PSMA4, and that trial is going to be testing the Lutetium-177-PSMA-617 in the context of chemotherapy-naive patients. So I think we're going to have to wait until we have more results, more clinical trials completed, prior to the application of PSMA-617 into the more general population of chemotherapy-naive patients. But those clinical trials are now underway.   Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: That's great. So, Oliver, in the VISION trial, you did mandate a diagnostic PSMA PET scan, and patients who were positive on the diagnostic PSMA PET scan were deemed to be eligible for enrollment on the VISION trial. Do you expect FDA to include diagnostic PSMA scan for eligibility for treatment with the Lutetium-177 in the real-world setting? If it doesn't or if it does, how it is going to affect the treatment of our patients, that availability of treatment for our patients?   Dr. Oliver Sartor:  That's really a great question. And I do expect that PSMA PET imaging will be a criteria given that it was used for patient selection. Now, as it turned out, about 87% of the patients actually did qualify after getting a PSMA PET scan. And given that that was part of the inclusion criteria, I anticipate that the FDA will also incorporate such imaging. Now, it does get to be a bit of an issue because it turns out that PSMA PET is just now coming into more widespread use. We did have, in May of this year, the approval by the FDA for the PSMA PET imaging agent and-- I shouldn't say "the"-- a PSMA PET imaging agent. Prior to that, in December of last year, there was both UCLA and UCSF approval by the FDA for yet another PSMA PET imaging agent. As we move forward, I anticipate that PET imaging is going to be more widely available. And of course, we don't have the approval as of yet today for the PSMA-617-Lutetium-177. And when we do get the anticipated approval, which likely will be in 2022, then I also anticipate that PSMA PET will be more widely available. Now, there are still issues with reimbursement for PSMA PET, and we've encountered those in our own practice. But that's a rapidly changing area, and we're working with the insurance companies in an effort to ensure that patients will get the imaging that they need.   Dr. Neeraj Agarwal:  Got it. And obviously, I asked this question because many of my community friends and colleagues have asked me this question.  Before we talk about the side effects of Lutetium-177, would you have any message for our friends and colleagues in the community who are bracing themselves for treating their patients with the Lutetium-177, whether they should be proactive in establishing contacts and relationships with the nuclear medicine facilities and so on?   Dr. Oliver Sartor:  That's a great question, Neeraj, because I think you're raising a very important point. This is going to be the type of therapy that involves multidisciplinary care. We can see that there'll be diagnostic PET imaging as being a component of the study. There'll be the necessity of licensed physicians, typically either nuclear medicine or radiation oncology, to actually administer the drug. And then, quite frankly, the medical oncologists or those urologists who are trained in advanced prostate cancer are going to need to manage the patient. This is a lot more than just getting an injection. Many of these patients are ill. They need to have symptom management. They need to manage their bone health. They need to manage their hormonal manipulations. They need management with regard to pain. So this is not just about giving an injection. And I encourage those people who are interested to involve multidisciplinary teams starting now. And I realize that the therapy is not available now, but you have to anticipate that it will be. And I think it will be a game changer of a therapy, and many patients are going to want it. So that means it's incumbent upon the physicians to be prepared, and that means multidisciplinary care.   Dr. Neearj Agarwal:  Excellent point. So basically, we should be ready. We should start establishing relationships with nuclear medicine facilities or radiation oncologists who are going to deliver Lutetium-177. Overall, when I was reading the New England Journal paper, the side effect profile seemed very reasonable. I did not see any red flags. To me, it sounded like a pretty well-tolerated drug. So what is your take on the side effects of Lutetium-177?   Dr. Oliver Sartor: I think the side effects are quite manageable. One of the unique side effects is that of dry mouth and that's because the PSMA can actually be expressed in the salivary glands and that there is some potential for salivary gland binding in the PSMA-617-Lutetium. And that means that you can have damage to the salivary glands, and that means dry mouth. It turns out that a little over 40% of the patients actually did complain of a dry mouth, and that needs to be managed typically with fluid intake or various ways of mouth moisturizers. Fatigue is a potential issue. It was raised, as well as some bone marrow suppression. And if you look at the grade 3/4 toxicities, anemia was present a little more than 10% of the time. And that, of course, needs to be monitored. There is some potential collateral damage to the bone marrow. So these patients need to have their counts monitored. They need to have their symptoms assessed. And they need to be managed as they go through the process. It's not just about giving an injection, but clearly, the licensed individuals, including nuclear medicine and radiation oncology, need to be engaged, because without them, there is no injection. So this is a complex multidisciplinary care paradigm. And emphasizing the point, symptom management, yes; adverse event management, yes. But you have to deliver the drug, and that means multidisciplinary care.   Dr. Neeraj Agarwal:  Those are fantastic points. Thank you very much, Dr. Sartor, for taking time to be with us. And I'm really hoping that this podcast will be very enriching to our listeners. Thank you very much.   Dr. Oliver Sartor: Thank you, Neeraj. Glad to be here.   ASCO Daily News:  You've been listening to Dr. Neeraj Agarwal of the Huntsman Cancer Institute and Dr. Oliver Sartor of the Tulane Cancer Center. Our listeners will find a link to the VISION study in the transcript of this episode. Thank you to our listeners for joining us today. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.   Disclosures: Dr. Neeraj Agarwal Consulting or Advisory Role: Pfizer, Medivation/Astellas, Bristol-Myers Squibb, AstraZeneca, Nektar, Lilly, Bayer, Pharmacyclics, Foundation Medicine, Astellas Pharma, Exelixis, Merck, Novartis, Eisai,    Seattle Genetics, EMD Serono, Janssen Oncology, AVEO, Calithera Biosciences, MEI Pharma, Genentech, Astellas Pharma, Foundation Medicine, and Gilead Sciences   Research Funding (Inst.): Bayer Your Institution, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Takeda, Pfizer, Exelixis, Amgen,    AstraZeneca, Calithera Biosciences, Celldex, Eisai, Genentech, Immunomedics, Janssen, Merck, Lilly, Nektar, ORIC Pharmaceuticals, crispr therapeutics, and Arvinas     Disclosures: Dr. Oliver Sartor Stocks & Other Ownership Interests: Lilly, GlaxoSmithKline, Abbvie, Cardinal Health, United Health Group, PSMA Therapeutics, Clarity Pharmaceuticals, Noria Therapeutics, Inc., Clovis Consulting or Advisory Role: Bayer, Sanofi, AstraZeneca, Dendreon, Constellation Pharmaceuticals, Advanced Accelerator Applications, Pfizer, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Bavarian Nordic, EMD Serono, Astellas Pharma, Progenics, Blue Earth Diagnostics, Myovant, Myriad Genetics, Novartis, Clarify Pharmaceuticals, Fusion, Istopen Technologien Meunchen, Janssen, Noxopharm, Clovis, Noria Therapeutics, Point Biopharma, TeneoBio, Telix, Theragnostics Research Funding (Inst): Sotio, Janssen, Progenics, Bayer, Sanofi, Endocyte, Merck, Invitae, Constellation Pharmaceuticals, Advanced Accelerator Applications, Dendreon, AstraZeneca Expert Testimony: Sanofi Travel, Accommodations, Expenses: Bayer, Johnson & Johnson, Sanofi, AstraZeneca, Progenics   Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.   Dr. Oliver Sartor on the VISION Trial and Improving Care for Patients With mCRPC       ASCO Daily News: Welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast. Our topic today is the practice-changing VISION trial, a phase III trial of radioligand therapy in patients with metastatic castration-resistant prostate cancer. Our guest host, Dr. Neeraj Agarwal, the editor-in-chief of the ASCO Daily News and director of the Genitourinary Cancers Program at the University of Utah's Huntsman Cancer Institute, will speak with one of the trial's investigators, Dr. Oliver Sartor, the medical director of the Tulane Cancer Center and Laborde Professor for Cancer Research. Their full disclosures are available on the transcript of this episode, and disclosures relating to all episodes of the Daily News Podcast are available on our transcripts at asco.org/podcasts.   Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Hi, my name is Dr. Neeraj Agarwal. I am with Dr. Oliver Sartor. Today, we are going to discuss one of the practice-changing trials in the context of metastatic castration-resistant prostate cancer. Welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast, Dr. Sartor. Thanks for taking the time to be with us today.   Dr. Oliver Sartor: Thank you, Neeraj. A pleasure to be here.   Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: You recently published the primary results of the phase III VISION trial, which tested the efficacy of a novel radioligand therapy, Lutetium-177-PSMA-617, in men with metastatic castrate-resistant prostate cancer. Could you please tell us more about this compound and why you did this study?   Dr. Oliver Sartor:  So I'll start off with the compound itself. Radioligand therapy is a therapy that has a little warhead, and that warhead in this case is Lutetium-177. But it's guided by binding to PSMA. Now, PSMA is prostate-specific membrane antigen, and many of us are familiar with it, but some may not be. So PSMA is a protein expressed on the surface of most prostate cancer cells. Not all patients have it, but most do. And the ability of the PSMA Lutetium-177 to target the cancer was indicated in some preliminary studies, but they have not been to phase III. So the purpose of the phase III VISION trial was really to design a definitive study to look at overall survival, in particular, to determine whether or not this agent was truly active. And the good news is, it is truly active. And in the VISION trial, we were able to not only extend life with an overall survival benefit, haz ratio 0.62, but there was also a time-to-progression image-based radiographic progression-free survival. It was also much in favor of the PSMA Lutetium with a haz ratio of 0.4. So whether or not you look at time to cancer progression or whether or not you look at overall survival, this is an effective therapy. It, of course, does have some adverse side effects. We can talk more about that, but it's reasonably well tolerated. And I do anticipate that there'll be an FDA approval as a consequence of these pivotal findings.   Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: These are wonderful results and news for our patients. Please tell me how it will affect the current treatment paradigm of our patients with mCRPC. As we know, you selected patients who had disease progression on chemotherapy with taxanes and novel hormonal therapy. But real-world studies, many of which were published by you, have shown that docetaxel is received by a minority of patients with metastatic prostate cancer. So how do you envision treating your patients who do not want to be treated with chemotherapy as many of my patients do? How will you apply Lutetium-177 in their treatment?   Dr. Oliver Sartor:  Well, Neeraj, I think that we're going to be restricted in accordance with the label that the FDA provides. And I fully expect that the label will include a progression after treatment with docetaxel or at least one taxane-based therapy because that's the way the VISION trial was constructed. Now, you're raising a very critical point, and that is, what about the individuals that do not want to receive or are ineligible to receive a chemotherapy such as docetaxel? And for those individuals, we now have a new trial called PSMA4, and that trial is going to be testing the Lutetium-177-PSMA-617 in the context of chemotherapy-naive patients. So I think we're going to have to wait until we have more results, more clinical trials completed, prior to the application of PSMA-617 into the more general population of chemotherapy-naive patients. But those clinical trials are now underway.   Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: That's great. So, Oliver, in the VISION trial, you did mandate a diagnostic PSMA PET scan, and patients who were positive on the diagnostic PSMA PET scan were deemed to be eligible for enrollment on the VISION trial. Do you expect FDA to include diagnostic PSMA scan for eligibility for treatment with the Lutetium-177 in the real-world setting? If it doesn't or if it does, how it is going to affect the treatment of our patients, that availability of treatment for our patients?   Dr. Oliver Sartor:  That's really a great question. And I do expect that PSMA PET imaging will be a criteria given that it was used for patient selection. Now, as it turned out, about 87% of the patients actually did qualify after getting a PSMA PET scan. And given that that was part of the inclusion criteria, I anticipate that the FDA will also incorporate such imaging. Now, it does get to be a bit of an issue because it turns out that PSMA PET is just now coming into more widespread use. We did have, in May of this year, the approval by the FDA for the PSMA PET imaging agent and-- I shouldn't say "the"-- a PSMA PET imaging agent. Prior to that, in December of last year, there was both UCLA and UCSF approval by the FDA for yet another PSMA PET imaging agent. As we move forward, I anticipate that PET imaging is going to be more widely available. And of course, we don't have the approval as of yet today for the PSMA-617-Lutetium-177. And when we do get the anticipated approval, which likely will be in 2022, then I also anticipate that PSMA PET will be more widely available. Now, there are still issues with reimbursement for PSMA PET, and we've encountered those in our own practice. But that's a rapidly changing area, and we're working with the insurance companies in an effort to ensure that patients will get the imaging that they need.   Dr. Neeraj Agarwal:  Got it. And obviously, I asked this question because many of my community friends and colleagues have asked me this question.  Before we talk about the side effects of Lutetium-177, would you have any message for our friends and colleagues in the community who are bracing themselves for treating their patients with the Lutetium-177, whether they should be proactive in establishing contacts and relationships with the nuclear medicine facilities and so on?   Dr. Oliver Sartor:  That's a great question, Neeraj, because I think you're raising a very important point. This is going to be the type of therapy that involves multidisciplinary care. We can see that there'll be diagnostic PET imaging as being a component of the study. There'll be the necessity of licensed physicians, typically either nuclear medicine or radiation oncology, to actually administer the drug. And then, quite frankly, the medical oncologists or those urologists who are trained in advanced prostate cancer are going to need to manage the patient. This is a lot more than just getting an injection. Many of these patients are ill. They need to have symptom management. They need to manage their bone health. They need to manage their hormonal manipulations. They need management with regard to pain. So this is not just about giving an injection. And I encourage those people who are interested to involve multidisciplinary teams starting now. And I realize that the therapy is not available now, but you have to anticipate that it will be. And I think it will be a game changer of a therapy, and many patients are going to want it. So that means it's incumbent upon the physicians to be prepared, and that means multidisciplinary care.   Dr. Neearj Agarwal:  Excellent point. So basically, we should be ready. We should start establishing relationships with nuclear medicine facilities or radiation oncologists who are going to deliver Lutetium-177. Overall, when I was reading the New England Journal paper, the side effect profile seemed very reasonable. I did not see any red flags. To me, it sounded like a pretty well-tolerated drug. So what is your take on the side effects of Lutetium-177?   Dr. Oliver Sartor: I think the side effects are quite manageable. One of the unique side effects is that of dry mouth and that's because the PSMA can actually be expressed in the salivary glands and that there is some potential for salivary gland binding in the PSMA-617-Lutetium. And that means that you can have damage to the salivary glands, and that means dry mouth. It turns out that a little over 40% of the patients actually did complain of a dry mouth, and that needs to be managed typically with fluid intake or various ways of mouth moisturizers. Fatigue is a potential issue. It was raised, as well as some bone marrow suppression. And if you look at the grade 3/4 toxicities, anemia was present a little more than 10% of the time. And that, of course, needs to be monitored. There is some potential collateral damage to the bone marrow. So these patients need to have their counts monitored. They need to have their symptoms assessed. And they need to be managed as they go through the process. It's not just about giving an injection, but clearly, the licensed individuals, including nuclear medicine and radiation oncology, need to be engaged, because without them, there is no injection. So this is a complex multidisciplinary care paradigm. And emphasizing the point, symptom management, yes; adverse event management, yes. But you have to deliver the drug, and that means multidisciplinary care.   Dr. Neeraj Agarwal:  Those are fantastic points. Thank you very much, Dr. Sartor, for taking time to be with us. And I'm really hoping that this podcast will be very enriching to our listeners. Thank you very much.   Dr. Oliver Sartor: Thank you, Neeraj. Glad to be here.   ASCO Daily News:  You've been listening to Dr. Neeraj Agarwal of the Huntsman Cancer Institute and Dr. Oliver Sartor of the Tulane Cancer Center. Our listeners will find a link to the VISION study in the transcript of this episode. Thank you to our listeners for joining us today. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.   Disclosures: Dr. Neeraj Agarwal Consulting or Advisory Role: Pfizer, Medivation/Astellas, Bristol-Myers Squibb, AstraZeneca, Nektar, Lilly, Bayer, Pharmacyclics, Foundation Medicine, Astellas Pharma, Exelixis, Merck, Novartis, Eisai,    Seattle Genetics, EMD Serono, Janssen Oncology, AVEO, Calithera Biosciences, MEI Pharma, Genentech, Astellas Pharma, Foundation Medicine, and Gilead Sciences   Research Funding (Inst.): Bayer Your Institution, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Takeda, Pfizer, Exelixis, Amgen,    AstraZeneca, Calithera Biosciences, Celldex, Eisai, Genentech, Immunomedics, Janssen, Merck, Lilly, Nektar, ORIC Pharmaceuticals, crispr therapeutics, and Arvinas     Disclosures: Dr. Oliver Sartor Stocks & Other Ownership Interests: Lilly, GlaxoSmithKline, Abbvie, Cardinal Health, United Health Group, PSMA Therapeutics, Clarity Pharmaceuticals, Noria Therapeutics, Inc., Clovis Consulting or Advisory Role: Bayer, Sanofi, AstraZeneca, Dendreon, Constellation Pharmaceuticals, Advanced Accelerator Applications, Pfizer, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Bavarian Nordic, EMD Serono, Astellas Pharma, Progenics, Blue Earth Diagnostics, Myovant, Myriad Genetics, Novartis, Clarify Pharmaceuticals, Fusion, Istopen Technologien Meunchen, Janssen, Noxopharm, Clovis, Noria Therapeutics, Point Biopharma, TeneoBio, Telix, Theragnostics Research Funding (Inst): Sotio, Janssen, Progenics, Bayer, Sanofi, Endocyte, Merck, Invitae, Constellation Pharmaceuticals, Advanced Accelerator Applications, Dendreon, AstraZeneca Expert Testimony: Sanofi Travel, Accommodations, Expenses: Bayer, Johnson & Johnson, Sanofi, AstraZeneca, Progenics   Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.   Dr. Oliver Sartor on the VISION Trial and Improving Care for Patients With mCRPC       ASCO Daily News: Welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast. Our topic today is the practice-changing VISION trial, a phase III trial of radioligand therapy in patients with metastatic castration-resistant prostate cancer. Our guest host, Dr. Neeraj Agarwal, the editor-in-chief of the ASCO Daily News and director of the Genitourinary Cancers Program at the University of Utah's Huntsman Cancer Institute, will speak with one of the trial's investigators, Dr. Oliver Sartor, the medical director of the Tulane Cancer Center and Laborde Professor for Cancer Research. Their full disclosures are available on the transcript of this episode, and disclosures relating to all episodes of the Daily News Podcast are available on our transcripts at asco.org/podcasts.   Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Hi, my name is Dr. Neeraj Agarwal. I am with Dr. Oliver Sartor. Today, we are going to discuss one of the practice-changing trials in the context of metastatic castration-resistant prostate cancer. Welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast, Dr. Sartor. Thanks for taking the time to be with us today.   Dr. Oliver Sartor: Thank you, Neeraj. A pleasure to be here.   Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: You recently published the primary results of the phase III VISION trial, which tested the efficacy of a novel radioligand therapy, Lutetium-177-PSMA-617, in men with metastatic castrate-resistant prostate cancer. Could you please tell us more about this compound and why you did this study?   Dr. Oliver Sartor:  So I'll start off with the compound itself. Radioligand therapy is a therapy that has a little warhead, and that warhead in this case is Lutetium-177. But it's guided by binding to PSMA. Now, PSMA is prostate-specific membrane antigen, and many of us are familiar with it, but some may not be. So PSMA is a protein expressed on the surface of most prostate cancer cells. Not all patients have it, but most do. And the ability of the PSMA Lutetium-177 to target the cancer was indicated in some preliminary studies, but they have not been to phase III. So the purpose of the phase III VISION trial was really to design a definitive study to look at overall survival, in particular, to determine whether or not this agent was truly active. And the good news is, it is truly active. And in the VISION trial, we were able to not only extend life with an overall survival benefit, haz ratio 0.62, but there was also a time-to-progression image-based radiographic progression-free survival. It was also much in favor of the PSMA Lutetium with a haz ratio of 0.4. So whether or not you look at time to cancer progression or whether or not you look at overall survival, this is an effective therapy. It, of course, does have some adverse side effects. We can talk more about that, but it's reasonably well tolerated. And I do anticipate that there'll be an FDA approval as a consequence of these pivotal findings.   Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: These are wonderful results and news for our patients. Please tell me how it will affect the current treatment paradigm of our patients with mCRPC. As we know, you selected patients who had disease progression on chemotherapy with taxanes and novel hormonal therapy. But real-world studies, many of which were published by you, have shown that docetaxel is received by a minority of patients with metastatic prostate cancer. So how do you envision treating your patients who do not want to be treated with chemotherapy as many of my patients do? How will you apply Lutetium-177 in their treatment?   Dr. Oliver Sartor:  Well, Neeraj, I think that we're going to be restricted in accordance with the label that the FDA provides. And I fully expect that the label will include a progression after treatment with docetaxel or at least one taxane-based therapy because that's the way the VISION trial was constructed. Now, you're raising a very critical point, and that is, what about the individuals that do not want to receive or are ineligible to receive a chemotherapy such as docetaxel? And for those individuals, we now have a new trial called PSMA4, and that trial is going to be testing the Lutetium-177-PSMA-617 in the context of chemotherapy-naive patients. So I think we're going to have to wait until we have more results, more clinical trials completed, prior to the application of PSMA-617 into the more general population of chemotherapy-naive patients. But those clinical trials are now underway.   Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: That's great. So, Oliver, in the VISION trial, you did mandate a diagnostic PSMA PET scan, and patients who were positive on the diagnostic PSMA PET scan were deemed to be eligible for enrollment on the VISION trial. Do you expect FDA to include diagnostic PSMA scan for eligibility for treatment with the Lutetium-177 in the real-world setting? If it doesn't or if it does, how it is going to affect the treatment of our patients, that availability of treatment for our patients?   Dr. Oliver Sartor:  That's really a great question. And I do expect that PSMA PET imaging will be a criteria given that it was used for patient selection. Now, as it turned out, about 87% of the patients actually did qualify after getting a PSMA PET scan. And given that that was part of the inclusion criteria, I anticipate that the FDA will also incorporate such imaging. Now, it does get to be a bit of an issue because it turns out that PSMA PET is just now coming into more widespread use. We did have, in May of this year, the approval by the FDA for the PSMA PET imaging agent and-- I shouldn't say "the"-- a PSMA PET imaging agent. Prior to that, in December of last year, there was both UCLA and UCSF approval by the FDA for yet another PSMA PET imaging agent. As we move forward, I anticipate that PET imaging is going to be more widely available. And of course, we don't have the approval as of yet today for the PSMA-617-Lutetium-177. And when we do get the anticipated approval, which likely will be in 2022, then I also anticipate that PSMA PET will be more widely available. Now, there are still issues with reimbursement for PSMA PET, and we've encountered those in our own practice. But that's a rapidly changing area, and we're working with the insurance companies in an effort to ensure that patients will get the imaging that they need.   Dr. Neeraj Agarwal:  Got it. And obviously, I asked this question because many of my community friends and colleagues have asked me this question.  Before we talk about the side effects of Lutetium-177, would you have any message for our friends and colleagues in the community who are bracing themselves for treating their patients with the Lutetium-177, whether they should be proactive in establishing contacts and relationships with the nuclear medicine facilities and so on?   Dr. Oliver Sartor:  That's a great question, Neeraj, because I think you're raising a very important point. This is going to be the type of therapy that involves multidisciplinary care. We can see that there'll be diagnostic PET imaging as being a component of the study. There'll be the necessity of licensed physicians, typically either nuclear medicine or radiation oncology, to actually administer the drug. And then, quite frankly, the medical oncologists or those urologists who are trained in advanced prostate cancer are going to need to manage the patient. This is a lot more than just getting an injection. Many of these patients are ill. They need to have symptom management. They need to manage their bone health. They need to manage their hormonal manipulations. They need management with regard to pain. So this is not just about giving an injection. And I encourage those people who are interested to involve multidisciplinary teams starting now. And I realize that the therapy is not available now, but you have to anticipate that it will be. And I think it will be a game changer of a therapy, and many patients are going to want it. So that means it's incumbent upon the physicians to be prepared, and that means multidisciplinary care.   Dr. Neearj Agarwal:  Excellent point. So basically, we should be ready. We should start establishing relationships with nuclear medicine facilities or radiation oncologists who are going to deliver Lutetium-177. Overall, when I was reading the New England Journal paper, the side effect profile seemed very reasonable. I did not see any red flags. To me, it sounded like a pretty well-tolerated drug. So what is your take on the side effects of Lutetium-177?   Dr. Oliver Sartor: I think the side effects are quite manageable. One of the unique side effects is that of dry mouth and that's because the PSMA can actually be expressed in the salivary glands and that there is some potential for salivary gland binding in the PSMA-617-Lutetium. And that means that you can have damage to the salivary glands, and that means dry mouth. It turns out that a little over 40% of the patients actually did complain of a dry mouth, and that needs to be managed typically with fluid intake or various ways of mouth moisturizers. Fatigue is a potential issue. It was raised, as well as some bone marrow suppression. And if you look at the grade 3/4 toxicities, anemia was present a little more than 10% of the time. And that, of course, needs to be monitored. There is some potential collateral damage to the bone marrow. So these patients need to have their counts monitored. They need to have their symptoms assessed. And they need to be managed as they go through the process. It's not just about giving an injection, but clearly, the licensed individuals, including nuclear medicine and radiation oncology, need to be engaged, because without them, there is no injection. So this is a complex multidisciplinary care paradigm. And emphasizing the point, symptom management, yes; adverse event management, yes. But you have to deliver the drug, and that means multidisciplinary care.   Dr. Neeraj Agarwal:  Those are fantastic points. Thank you very much, Dr. Sartor, for taking time to be with us. And I'm really hoping that this podcast will be very enriching to our listeners. Thank you very much.   Dr. Oliver Sartor: Thank you, Neeraj. Glad to be here.   ASCO Daily News:  You've been listening to Dr. Neeraj Agarwal of the Huntsman Cancer Institute and Dr. Oliver Sartor of the Tulane Cancer Center. Our listeners will find a link to the VISION study in the transcript of this episode. Thank you to our listeners for joining us today. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.   Disclosures: Dr. Neeraj Agarwal Consulting or Advisory Role: Pfizer, Medivation/Astellas, Bristol-Myers Squibb, AstraZeneca, Nektar, Lilly, Bayer, Pharmacyclics, Foundation Medicine, Astellas Pharma, Exelixis, Merck, Novartis, Eisai,    Seattle Genetics, EMD Serono, Janssen Oncology, AVEO, Calithera Biosciences, MEI Pharma, Genentech, Astellas Pharma, Foundation Medicine, and Gilead Sciences   Research Funding (Inst.): Bayer Your Institution, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Takeda, Pfizer, Exelixis, Amgen,    AstraZeneca, Calithera Biosciences, Celldex, Eisai, Genentech, Immunomedics, Janssen, Merck, Lilly, Nektar, ORIC Pharmaceuticals, crispr therapeutics, and Arvinas     Disclosures: Dr. Oliver Sartor Stocks & Other Ownership Interests: Lilly, GlaxoSmithKline, Abbvie, Cardinal Health, United Health Group, PSMA Therapeutics, Clarity Pharmaceuticals, Noria Therapeutics, Inc., Clovis Consulting or Advisory Role: Bayer, Sanofi, AstraZeneca, Dendreon, Constellation Pharmaceuticals, Advanced Accelerator Applications, Pfizer, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Bavarian Nordic, EMD Serono, Astellas Pharma, Progenics, Blue Earth Diagnostics, Myovant, Myriad Genetics, Novartis, Clarify Pharmaceuticals, Fusion, Istopen Technologien Meunchen, Janssen, Noxopharm, Clovis, Noria Therapeutics, Point Biopharma, TeneoBio, Telix, Theragnostics Research Funding (Inst): Sotio, Janssen, Progenics, Bayer, Sanofi, Endocyte, Merck, Invitae, Constellation Pharmaceuticals, Advanced Accelerator Applications, Dendreon, AstraZeneca Expert Testimony: Sanofi Travel, Accommodations, Expenses: Bayer, Johnson & Johnson, Sanofi, AstraZeneca, Progenics   Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.