Episode 70, presented by Thai Union: Special Oceans-themed episode with Karmenu Vella, Werner Hoyer

First up Justine Maillot from the Surfrider Foundation, a group of activists pushing for healthy oceans from the bottom-up. Then we speak to Davide Magnana who is trying to build an industry based on wave and tidal power, and Werner Hoyer, president of the European Investment Bank: the man Europe turns to when it doesn't have enough money to solve a pressing problem. Finally, European commissioner Karmenu Vella speaks of oceans as “a goldmine we instead treat like a landfill.” Our podcast panel this week discusses the cultural reasons why our public debates seem to be careening out of control.