Karen Tumulty: The Country Owes Mike Pence

Everything would be different if Mike Pence had not counted the votes. He showed courage and faced real potential physical danger. Plus, Biden on Kimmel, Jared & Ivanka's reputation laundering, and Abbott's flip-flop on guns. Karen Tumulty joins Charlie Sykes on today's podcast. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices