Episode 258 Hannah's VBAC + Giving Birth in Different Locations

Meagan is joined today by our friend, Hannah, who has been through so much during her motherhood journey. Hannah’s experiences include a blissful first birth at a birth center, multiple twin pregnancies, miscarriages, a difficult C-section, infant loss, and a redemptive VBAC. Hannah shares her unexpectedly traumatic experiences with pregnancy, birth, and grief while living in Argentina. Yet even with all that she’s been through, you can feel Hannah’s strength, positivity, and light. Hannah wasn’t sure if she wanted another baby, but learning about the possibility of a VBAC restored hope in her heart. Hannah spent years researching providers and birthing locations in preparation for her move back to the US. When she became pregnant, Hannah was able to feel safe in the providers she chose. Her VBAC birth was everything she hoped it would be and Hannah was able to find so much joy and healing through her experience. Additional LinksThe Lactation NetworkHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hey, hey you guys! We have another episode for you today and we are sharing stories from our friend, Hannah. Welcome, Hannah. Hannah: Hi. Thanks for having me. Meagan: Thanks for being here. We are always excited to be sharing new stories. Just a little bit about cute Hannah here– we were just chatting right before we pushed record and she’s had three babies. She has had three babies in three different states which is kind of cool. You kind of know how the birth world looks in a few different areas. Would you say they are very similar? Would you say they are vastly different? How would you rate having babies in three different places? Hannah: Right. Well, I would say from my experience that they were very different but more so having a baby out of the country. I’ve had one in South Carolina and then I’ve had one in Argentina, and then one in Texas. They are very different places and have different levels of care. Meagan: Yes. I think if I were to choose to do anything with my free time– I mean there are a lot of things– but one of the things in the birth world that I’d like to do is teleport to all of the different areas, just be a fly on the wall, and witness birth all around the world, truly. I would love to see the differences between them. As a doula, I’ve only seen birth live here in Utah. I think that would be really interesting. Well, like I said, her last baby was born in Texas so if you guys are listening from Texas, listen up because she did have her VBAC in Texas. But yes, she is a wife. They’ve been married for nine years, right? You and David have been married for nine years and they have three beautiful girls. We’re going to talk about their births and then we’re going to talk a little bit about miscarriage too, right? Hannah: Yes. Meagan: Yes. She’s got some angel babies as well. I’m excited to have you share these stories with us today. I would just love to turn the time over to you. Hannah’s StoriesHannah: All right. Well, thank you. I have had, I guess, a different birth story in the sense that I’ve given birth in different places. I’ll start with our first. I’m from a large family. I’m one of eight kids. My mom had four of us at home, so I was very familiar with midwifery and all of those things. I knew that if we had a baby when my husband and I got married, that’s kind of what I wanted to pursue. My husband, of course, was not familiar with that. Meagan: A little more foreign. Hannah: Right. I think he thought it was a little weird, but he was very, very supportive. About two years into our marriage, we found out we were expecting our first. We were living in South Carolina at the time. I started researching midwives. I found one there, Labors of Love, in Spartanburg, South Carolina. She was just a great midwife. My husband went to all of the appointments. We had an initial meeting with her. I remember he had some questions, but I think what really helped us as a couple and my husband to really get on board and just to be that support that I needed is we took a pretty intensive birth class together. It was about an eight-week course. It was about two hours each night. It was with a group of other couples. We learned about labor techniques and the whole pregnancy process, and then she also covered postpartum. That just really helped, of course, me because I’ve never had a baby before, but also my husband to understand more and then to really be supportive because he really was there for me during my birth. In the beginning, he was like, “I don’t know.” It was a little weird to him. My first birth, I’ll just go over pretty quickly. It was a pretty smooth pregnancy. I wasn’t sick. I was very active. Of course, I was a little bit younger. It was just very smooth. I didn’t hardly gain any weight and it just went by very well. But at about 37 weeks, we went in and she was breech. My midwife suggested I try a chiropractor. I had never been to a chiropractor. I remember I went and was so nervous. We had a couple of sessions with her and thank the Lord, the baby flipped. She got in position. Meagan: Yay!Hannah: I was so excited. We were able to have that natural birth with my first daughter. I really wanted a water birth and at the birthing center, they had a tub. I was laboring for quite a while in the water, but then I had a lip. Meagan: A cervical lip?Hannah: A cervical lip, yes. She had checked me and everything seemed like it was going really well. I had been in labor for about six hours and she was like, “You’re a 10. Do you feel pushy or this?” I’m like, “No. I don’t feel anything.” She’s like, “Let’s get you out of the water and see what’s going on.” It was a lip, so we tried different things to try to get that moved. We ended up going outside on the porch and walking. Meagan: Oh yeah. Hannah: My husband still reminds me of this because he’s like, “Whose idea was it to go walk on the porch?” because it was my husband’s idea. I didn’t want to go. I was in the tub. I’m like, “I don’t want to move. I don’t want to walk.” He’s like, “Come on.” He was putting a robe on me and he was like, “Let’s go outside and walk.” Within 10 minutes of walking outside, my water broke and she was crowning. Meagan: Wow. Hannah: She was there. I remember I reached down and I’m like, “I think that’s her head.” My husband called the midwife and she’s like, “Let’s try to get her inside,” because we were still outside at this point. They got me inside to the bed and in the next contraction, I didn’t really feel like I pushed that much. It was like my body just pushed. Meagan: Involuntary. Hannah: Yes. Her head came out, and then in the next push, her body came out. It was very smooth and very quick. She was 6 pounds, 11 ounces, and was perfect. We were so excited. Then the next year, we found out we were expecting again. We were very excited. They were going to be pretty close together, but we were happy. We went and did an early ultrasound because, between these two pregnancies, I had not gotten my period back. I was breastfeeding. So I was kind of like, “I have no idea how far along I am.” I was nervous about that because at the time, we were planning to move to South America, to Argentina. We were packing up and getting ready to move. I’m like, “I don’t know. Should we stay stateside and have the baby at home?”Meagan: That’s stressful. Hannah: Right. So we went in for an ultrasound, but that ended up ending in a miscarriage at around eight weeks. One of the things that we didn’t know– we were working with the same midwife at the time but didn’t do ultrasounds in her office because she was just a midwife– it was a pretty small birthing center so you would go to another office and do ultrasounds. We had done one and they didn’t tell us anything, but when I miscarried, I called my midwife to tell her that I miscarried and she informed me that I was actually pregnant with twins. Meagan: Whoa. Hannah: She said, “I was going to tell you in your appointment, but that’s what the ultrasound tech saw.” So I was like, “Oh my goodness.” She said, “The reason they didn’t tell you is because in one of the babies, they saw a little bit of an irregular heart so maybe you just miscarried the one and you’re going to keep the other baby.” Meagan: Which does happen. It actually does happen where one twin unfortunately will pass, but then the other, if they are not identical and stuff, will continue. Hannah: I had not heard of that, but that’s what my midwife had told me so I was like, “Okay.” We were actually out of state, so we were driving back home. I miscarried out of state. We were driving back home and then I miscarried a few days later the second baby. It was a rollercoaster of loss then thinking maybe– Meagan: Hope. Oh, I’m so sorry. Hannah: Yeah. That was really tough. We hadn’t really told anybody we were expecting. I had told my parents but we really hadn’t told anybody else. Then when we lost the baby, we just didn’t really feel like telling anybody because we had lost a baby. But then as a little bit of time went on, we did end up telling people and I think for me personally, everyone’s different, but for me personally, it helped a little bit in the loss because I felt like my babies were acknowledged. I know some people would maybe rather just keep it private, but for me, it actually helped me a little bit in the grieving process because I felt like they were acknowledged even though I was only eight weeks along. It was a miscarriage. We did end up telling people that we lost the babies. We lost the babies. We said, “All right. Let’s go ahead and move because I’m no longer expecting.” We bought the tickets. We started packing up and then we found out we were expecting again. Yeah. So I miscarried in April and I found out I was expecting in July. We said, “Well, let’s go ahead and go.” I was a little ignorant on my end. I hadn’t done research, but I’m just thinking, “We’re moving to South America. Argentina is a pretty modern country.” We were going to a big city, Córdoba. We were like, “There had to be people there. There have to be midwives or doulas.” I knew they obviously had big hospitals, but I wanted the same experiences so I was like, “I’m sure they have people there.” I just went with the idea that I would find care there very optimistically which is my personality. I’m just like, “We’ll go and figure it out. We’ll get there and we’ll find people there.” We got to Argentina and I’m trying to find a house, trying to buy furniture. We started from zero. We didn’t know anybody in the state that we were moving to. We’re trying to meet new people and all of this stuff. I started asking people that I would meet, “Do you know midwives?” They’re like, “No. We’ve never heard of that before.” I’m like, “What?” Meagan: Whoa, really? Hannah: Yes. They all start telling me no. So then I asked doctors because then we went in– well, let me go back a little bit. We went in and got an ultrasound because I hadn’t had an ultrasound yet in my pregnancy. We found out it was twins again. Meagan: Really? Hannah: Yes. I had two twin pregnancies back to back. Meagan: Back to back. Hannah: Back to back. They told me it was twins and we were shocked because I had miscarried the twins. I just never thought I was going to be pregnant with twins again. We were very, very surprised. We did an ultrasound. I started interviewing doctors. I couldn’t find any midwives so then the doctors told me, “No. Midwifery is illegal.” Some doctors would tell me that midwifery was illegal in Argentina. Other people would say, “Well, we don’t have any.” It was very confusing. I was pretty bummed because I really wanted that experience that I had with my first. I felt like it was just such a great experience and such a great birth. Through different people and different connections, we started to find health food stores. I really like to eat healthy and things like that. We found more of the hippies I guess you could say. They didn’t live in the city. They lived further out and they would come in and sell stuff. They told me, “We know midwives,” because they had their babies with midwives. I was like, “Oh, this is great.” We actually traveled about an hour out of the city. We would meet with these midwives. I was really happy again. I started feeling optimistic. I was very excited, but it was just very different than midwifery care stateside. For example, they were very nice, but they didn’t do any medical things. Really, they would just be like, “How do you feel?” Meagan: Like more of a monitrice? Well, because midwife and doula– hmm. Hannah: Yeah. They never measured me. They never listened to the heartbeat. They never weighed me. Blood pressure, nothing. Meagan: Did you know what their credentials were? I’m so curious. Hannah: That was kind of a thing too that we were worried about in the sense that some of the people that birthed with them didn’t have birth certificates for their babies. Meagan: Oh. Hannah: We’re like, “Well, obviously we need their birth certificates. We need to get their papers. We need to travel to the embassy.” Meagan: Right. Hannah: Then we started learning that it was more like people who almost wanted to be off-grid. I’m like, “I’m not that natural. I don’t want that.” Meagan: Like underground midwives. Okay, okay. Hannah: Exactly. I was wanting a little bit more care than that because obviously I have twins and I wanted to check on the babies and everything. So they were like, “Well, go to this doctor.” They suggested I go to a doctor so we went to this doctor. In the beginning, he seemed very supportive. That’s where I did all of my bloodwork and my blood pressure. He would check on the babies and all of that. The plan was that I was going to deliver with the midwives as long as everything was looking good. He said that he would sign off on it because he was a doctor and I was under his care. So that was the plan. I was very happy. I was like, “Okay. I’m going to get it.” We were going to do a home birth this time. I had my birthing kit and everything. My parents came in from Texas for the birth so we were super excited about that. Then I went in for my 37-week appointment and everything had been good. The babies were in a good position. Nobody was in distress. My blood pressure was good. Everything was good. I was very healthy in my pregnancy. I go in and he’s like, “All right. Are you going to do your C-section today or tomorrow?”Meagan: You’re like, “What?” Hannah: He completely flipped. It was just like he became very disassociated almost like he hadn’t talked to us about other things whereas before he had told me all of these things that he was going to let me do even if I delivered in a hospital. He said, “Oh yeah. I’ll let you deliver and this and that,” but there was another head doctor that was in that appointment so I don’t know if it was something. Meagan: Maybe. Hannah: Maybe he wasn’t supposed to let me have the baby vaginally. I’m not sure, but it just became a very weird situation. My husband and I just left that appointment like, “What just happened?” Meagan: I bet you were very confused. Hannah: Very confused. We were just like, “We’ll call you,” and just left. So then after that, he started pressuring us a lot to come in and do the C-section. We had to come in and do the C-section. I talked to our midwives about it and they said, “Oh, he called us too and we’re not going to deliver your baby anymore.” I was like, “Why?” They didn’t want to be involved politically because they were underground. It just became– I just felt completely abandoned really by both of my providers because I thought I had a supportive OB and then I thought I had supportive midwives and then within a week they both just abandoned me. Meagan: Switched on you, yeah. I’m so sorry. Hannah: It was very like, “Oh my goodness.” I didn’t know what to do. It was just one of those things. I kept asking the doctor, “Will you just let me try to labor and try to have a delivery if I go into the hospital?” “No.” They wouldn’t. The policy was that they didn’t let the husbands go in. In Argentina, they don’t let the hospital go in. Meagan: Really? Hannah: Yes. Meagan: These are the things I wish I could find out. I wish I could know birth all around the world. That’s interesting. Hannah: Yeah, so there they don’t let the husband go in with you. I think typically, the women are also knocked out under general anesthesia. Meagan: Really? Still today? Hannah: Yes. I think that’s one of the reasons why the husband is not in there. It’s more of really like a surgery surgery in that sense. Our doctor knew that me and my husband wanted to be together so he told us, “If you come in on Sunday, I’ll do the C-section and I’ll let your husband in there because we don’t have any other C-sections scheduled for that morning.” So me and my husband talked about it. We cried. We didn’t know what to do. I just felt like, “Well, at least he’s letting my husband in.” It was just one of those things.Meagan: Yeah. You take the wins where you can. That’s hard. Hannah: Yeah. It’s like, “We’re not going to free birth. What are we going to do?” And my parents were there. That was another thing. I knew especially if I had the C-section, my mom only had a week left to stay. Especially if I have a C-section, I had a one-year-old. She was about to be two but she wasn’t two yet. We were going to have two babies. I’m going to have a C-section. We might as well go ahead and do it. That way I would have my mom here to help us for the first week. We decided to go in. Like I said, I was completely ignorant. I had grown up in this circle, I guess in the sense that my mom had home births. A lot of my friends were also doing home births or birth centers. I didn’t really know anybody who had a C-section. I should have researched it, especially with twins but I really just didn’t. I really did not know what to expect at all. I just went in not really knowing anything. That’s one thing– I wish I had done more research and looked into what it really entails and with recovery just to prepare myself because I really went in with no idea. I went in for the C-section. I felt very forced because we pretty much were forced. It wasn’t like we wanted it. They hooked me up to the monitors and then they told me they were going to monitor me for two hours. They hooked me up and watched me before they did a C-section. They hooked me up and then about ten minutes into being hooked up, they were like, “You’re in labor.” I was like, “What?” They checked me and I was 5 centimeters dilated. Meagan: What? You weren’t even feeling anything? Contractions? Hannah: I was feeling uncomfortable, but I was expecting twins. I was 39 weeks at this point. I’m just uncomfortable all of the time. Meagan: Right, yeah. Hannah: I mean, I felt uncomfortable. My back hurt but I didn’t think it was labor. I just felt like, “I’m uncomfortable. I’m tired. I’m not sleeping well.” I didn’t recognize that I was in labor. I think it probably started that morning, but that day I was so stressed just getting ready for the C-section. I had it in the back of my mind, but then when they told me that, I was like, “Oh stink. I wouldn’t have come in if I knew I was in labor.” Meagan: Yes. Yeah. Hannah: Anyways. Then it just became this cascade of everybody rushing in the room. Rush, rush, rush. They were trying to get the IV in me. They couldn’t get the IV in me. Of course, I was freezing. They wouldn’t let me drink all day. My C-section was planned for 7:00 that night. Meagan: Whoa. Hannah: They didn’t want me eating or drinking since that morning. I hadn’t had anything. Then they were trying to stick all of these IVs in me and it was just not working. I had tons of bruises all over my arms so they brought in a peds to do the IV. Meagan: The light? Yeah. Hannah: That worked and then they rushed me to the OR. Of course, it was freezing. They do the spinal tap and as soon as they put in the spinal tap, I got the shakes really bad. It was just uncontrollable. I almost felt like I was going to fall off the table. My husband wasn’t in there yet or my doctor so there was nobody that I knew in the room. I wasn’t covered and I just remember I felt so exposed. They tied my arms down and it was just very traumatic. I know some people have C-sections and they go really well and really smoothly. I’m like, “That’s great,” but that was not my experience.” My experience was very traumatic. But then my husband came in. He calmed me down. My doctor came in. He was like, “Get her drapes on,” and all of that stuff. He brought a little more order. The thing that surprised me was how fast it was. I guess from having a labor before a C-section, I just felt like they started and he was like, “Here’s your baby!” I felt like I wasn’t ready. My brain wasn’t connecting. Meagan: Yeah. It’s quick. Hannah: It’s so fast. But then again, no skin-to-skin. Nothing. They just showed me the baby over the curtain and rushed it off. They showed me the next baby over the curtain and rushed it off. I told my husband, “Go with the babies.” I wanted him to be with the babies. I stayed there and they stitched me up and everything. We got back to the room and it was just a rough recovery from the beginning. I won’t go into everything for time, but one of the things was that my pain medicine was not administered so they thought they had an IV in me for the pain medicine. When the nurses would come in, they kept on checking on me and I kept telling them that I was in a lot of pain. They told me, “Oh, it’s because you’re breastfeeding. We can keep the babies. Let us take them to the nursery and we’ll give them a bottle.” I’m like, “No. I’ve breastfed before. No. I’m in a lot of pain.” The other thing was they had me up walking pretty quickly. Within about an hour and a half, I was up because I didn’t have a catheter in. They didn’t put one in during the surgery. They came in after the surgery and wanted to place one. I’m like, “No.” So I’m like, “I’ll get up and go to the bathroom,” but I was in a lot of pain. I tried to get up and go to the bathroom. I didn’t know what was going on. That was all night. Then the next morning, a new shift of nurses came on. I told the nurses the same thing when they came in. “I’m in a lot of discomfort and a lot of pain.” They went and they checked my IV. They were like, “Oh, it was never hooked up to the bag.” I had my IV in my arm but it wasn’t connected to the bag. I was taking no pain medication. Meagan: Oh dear. Hannah: Then they just reconnected it but by that time, my pain is–Meagan: Past the point. Hannah: I needed something stronger. That was tough. Just trying to nurse and change your babies’ diapers and trying to swaddle the baby. Meagan: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Hannah: So that was really hard. But we got over that and then I also had an allergic reaction to something that they cleaned me with for the C-section. I had these red, itchy bumps. Meagan: Like the betadine or something? Hannah: I think that’s what it was. It was just these red, itchy bumps all over my torso. That was uncomfortable as well. We ended up being able to go home finally. We were so happy to go home. There is nothing like home. Then about a week into being home, my C-section scar reopened. Meagan: Oh no. Hannah: It was again, something I had no idea that could happen. I had never– of course, I hadn’t researched C-sections, but I was like, “How can this happen? I didn’t know this could happen.” We battled with that for a while. Eventually, it did reclose. We didn’t have to go in and do another surgery. It was just a small part that had opened. That was good. But it was one of those other hurdles I didn’t think would come from a C-section. Then about a month postpartum, the babies were doing well. They were nursing. I was able to breastfeed both of them which I really wanted to do but I didn’t know if I was going to be able to. Meagan: Yeah, because that’s hard. That’s really hard. Hannah: Yes. I did just feel like I was breastfeeding all of the time, but I loved it because it gave me a chance to bond more with the babies. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. Hannah: So that was really good. But then our son passed away unexpectedly. He was a month and a day old. He passed away in his sleep. That was really, really hard of course. Meagan: I’m so sorry. I just got the chills watching you. I’m so sorry. Hannah: Yeah. That was really, really tough. In any circumstance, it would be, but we didn’t have any family or really any friends. We had met people and we were getting to know people, but we had only been in the country for about six months so it’s different. We didn’t know the procedures of funerals and just all of that stuff you don’t think you’re ever going to navigate. Meagan: No, no. Hannah: With a funeral and things like that, you never think you’re going to plan that for your child. So it was just very unexpected and very hard. It was just something that we didn’t expect obviously and something that when it happened, I was kind of like, “I never want to have a baby again.” Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. Hannah: The C-section being really hard, having a really rough recovery, and then finally feeling like I’m kind of recovering. At this point, my C-section still had not closed so I still had this open wound and I was still dealing with a lot of stuff postpartum, and then to have our son pass away, I was just like, “We’re never going to do this again.” It was very, very traumatic and very hard. Me and my husband are very religious and I think that really, really helped us just clinging to the Lord and reading the songs and all of those things. Of course, we had a lot of people praying for us around the country, and in the States, a lot of people who knew us were supporting us. I think that really helped us to get through that time. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. Hannah: About a year after losing our son and after having my C-section, I still wasn’t thinking about having another baby. I didn’t know anything about a VBAC or the chances of having a vaginal birth after a Cesarean. I was scrolling my Facebook and I was in a home birth group on my Facebook page. I thought I had put it on mute because it was one of those things where I didn’t want to see people having these beautiful home births. I thought I had put them on mute. One day, it just showed up on my feed. It was a lady and I wish I could remember who it was, but I couldn’t go back and find it. She had actually had a VBAC home birth. She was on The VBAC Link Facebook page but she had posted on the home birth page as well. She was talking about this and then I was so sucked in like, “What? This is possible?” I started researching and I found the Facebook group. Then I found the podcast and I binged every episode. I still didn’t feel ready to have a baby, but just the sense of that possibility gave me so much hope. I was so excited. I remember telling my husband about it. I would listen to it during lunch because, at the time, our babies were still really little so that was my time. I would eat my lunch and I would listen to The VBAC Link. It was so encouraging and so inspiring to hear all of these stories of these ladies. They had different circumstances and different backgrounds and were able to achieve that. I was so happy. I started researching and reading anything I could about VBAC and its options. So about a year after that, me and my husband were talking. We said, “Maybe we would like to try to have a baby next year.” We weren’t ready still at that time, but we were talking about, “Maybe. Maybe we could do this and that.” But I was like, “If we’re going to have another baby, I really, really need to have a supportive provider.” That was my biggest thing that I just really felt like they failed me. I felt like I had support and then I really didn’t have any support from either side. I felt very abandoned. I was like, “I just don’t want that to happen again.” I started researching providers. We were still in Argentina and we had this app where you can call the states so I just started calling doctors, OBs, midwives, and all in different states because we were scheduled the next year to go back stateside. We had been in Argentina for a few years and then we were going to be about nine months stateside. So I was like, “I can pretty much– I’m open. I can go to North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida.” I was just calling everywhere. Of course, originally I called my provider who I had my first with. She told me for the state that they could not do VBACs. She couldn’t do VBACs anymore. I was disappointed about that. She referred me to some people who might. So I was calling that area. My parents had recently moved to South Texas. That’s where I am now. We are in South Texas. It’s the valley area so it’s all the way down in Texas. I had not heard great stuff about providers here. I had never really lived here. I started calling around here as well. I was like, “You know what?” I was just calling everywhere. It was so funny. I was like, “I know I’m not expecting but I’m just wondering.” Meagan: Do you know what though? That is one thing I actually think is really good to do before you’re expecting because we’re in a different timeframe. It’s actually really healthy to start before because we’re vulnerable but we’re not expecting. I don’t know. We’re in a different place. Right? Hannah: Yes, for sure. We don’t feel like we’re on a time clock. Meagan: Exactly. “I have to find a provider. I have to make a decision now.” It’s like, “No. I’m preparing and I’m going through these motions to find a supportive provider so when I get there, it’s there. I’m supported from the beginning.” Hannah: Yeah. So that’s what I felt like. I wanted to find somebody before. Of course, I knew maybe once I got pregnant and once I met them in person, it might not work. Meagan: It could change, yeah. Hannah: But I at least wanted a base and something to go off to feel like I had found somebody and at least had someone to talk to if we did get pregnant. Thankfully and fortunately, I did find somebody here in the valley. I talked to her on the phone about two times. We had two phone conversations. She was so nice and really just took the time to talk with me. We went through my history and looking back, I wasn’t even expecting. She just really took time with me and really talked through it. She was so sweet but also very informative letting me know, “These are things that could happen with a VBAC,” and just giving me all the facts. I really appreciated that with her. She wasn’t trying to sugarcoat anything, but also not fear-mongering me at the same time. I don’t know if that makes sense. Meagan: Yeah, totally. Hannah: I really liked her. Anyway, time happened. I’m trying to remember. That was the second year. So the third year, we headed back stateside and we were not pregnant. This had never happened to us before. We had always gotten pregnant pretty quickly with all of our babies. With this baby, it took us about a year to get pregnant with her. You know, six months into it, it’s like, “That can happen.” But then 8-9 months you start thinking, “Something’s wrong with me.” I really didn’t know and to this day, I don’t know because I never went in. I didn’t get any testing. I just thought, “Maybe it’s taking longer.” I really wasn’t sure. I just started trying to focus more on my health, taking some supplements, and making sure I was eating good food and all that stuff. About around the year mark, we found out that we were expecting. We were super excited. We were living in Indiana at the time so I went to an OB in Indiana and actually, we went just because we weren’t going to move here to the valley until I was 27 weeks and my midwife wanted me to have some form of care before. Meagan: Right. Hannah: Obviously, and she wanted to make sure it was not twins again with my track record. Meagan: With your history, yeah. Hannah: She said, “I do not feel comfortable doing a VBAC twin birth.” That’s what she had told me which is fine. So she said, “I do want you to go in. Do an ultrasound. Have a couple of checkups. See what’s going on.” We found an OB, not necessarily looking for a VBAC-supportive OB, but just going in for an OB. But he ended up being great. I really recommend him. He was Dr. Labban in Bloomington, Indiana. They were so great. I was actually kind of sad when we left them because I felt like I could have maybe had a VBAC there as well. They were very supportive of me doing a VBAC and just really, really nice. But of course, he was a doctor and an OB. They weren’t at a birth center or something like that but it was a great experience. We found out it was one baby. She was a baby girl and everything looked perfect. We were so excited. We moved to the valley and I was able to reconnect with that same midwife I had called almost two years ago now when we were still in Argentina. We had done a couple of Zoom calls while we were in Indiana. It was really great just feeling like we could get to know each other. Meagan: More connection, mhmm. Hannah: Right. We could build a connection. We started care with her and really, the pregnancy was wonderful. It was really great. I was really sick in the beginning. I wasn’t with my other wones but that’s okay. I was sick for about four months throwing up every day which I hadn’t had with my other pregnancies. Everything was well. I did start seeing chiropractic care from the beginning this time. I really wanted to stay on top of everything. I was walking. I was doing my squats. I was just trying to do everything to get this VBAC. Around 34 weeks, we decided to hire a doula which I had never had. My husband and I were talking. I was like, “I just feel like maybe I could have a little more support just coming from the traumatic experience we had with our last birth.” I really felt like I wanted that support. So I talked to my midwife and she had some recommendations. She recommended a few doulas in the area. I met with them. We hired a doula and it was really great because she really helped me in the sense of calming me down, in the sense of – I didn’t want to think about if my VBAC didn’t work or if I ended up in another Cesarean. I just was like, “I don’t want to think about that. I just want to focus on my VBAC,” which is great, but at the same time, I think we have to be realistic. She really helped me come up with a birth plan of what if’s. I really felt more prepared in the end because we had a birth plan if I transferred and if it ended up being a C-section with things that I wanted because we talked through it. She was like, “You can request skin-to-skin,” and things I didn’t know about. I’m like, “I didn’t know you could do that.” Something I learned just by listening to The VBAC Link, you can have skin-to-skin with a C-section. You can do the clear drape and things I didn’t know about so that even if it was a repeat Cesarean, I would be able to have a better experience. I think that it is possible to have a beautiful Cesarean as well. She really helped me write everything up and that way, I think I felt a lot more prepared like, “Even if this doesn’t go the way I want it to go, I can still have a really beautiful birth.” That really gave me confidence either way. Time progressed. I got to 40 weeks. I kept on telling my family, “I feel huge. I think I’m to go before. I think I’m going to have this baby early.” It was wishful thinking. I got to 40 weeks and it was a Sunday and I was having labor. I started having some contractions, nothing crazy, but I started having some contractions. We went to church that morning anyway. Sitting through church, I was very uncomfortable I guess because you’re just sitting too. I was like, “I’m really uncomfortable. I don’t like this.” I started losing a little bit of my mucus plug so I started getting really excited because with my first, I didn’t really have any of that until I was in labor. It was like I was going to have her in a few hours when I lost my mucus plug. Oh, this was happening today. I got so pumped. After church, I told my husband, “Let’s go walk,” because I just wanted to get things going. But it was a rainy, really windy, nasty day. We went to this mall and we were just doing rounds walking, walking, walking, and walking. We walked for hours and we came home. I took a bath and my contractions pretty much stopped. I was so bummed. I was like, “It’s okay. It’s all right.” I went to bed. I woke up at 4:00 in the morning with contractions but they were just very sporadic. So I was like, “Oh, here we go again.” I got in the water and of course, as soon as I got in the water, they stopped. They fizzled out. I had a chiropractic appointment though that morning. I was like, “Maybe you’ll get adjusted and it will start things up.” So now I’m 40 and 1 day. I go in. I’m adjusted. Nothing happens. Then I was talking to my mom. She was like, “Maybe I’ll come and get the girls,” because I had the two girls at the house still. “I’ll go ahead and pick them up,” and that way me and my husband could just have time by ourselves and see if we could get something started. So she came. She took the girls and really, nothing happened that day. I mean, I was on the ball. I was walking. I was doing squats. I was just so ready to have the baby. Looking back, I don’t know why I was in such a hurry, but I was so ready. Meagan: Just ready, yeah. Hannah: I was ready. We started timing contractions at 10:00 that night because they did start getting more regular. They were about 5-7 minutes apart lasting about 45 seconds. I was like, “Well, I don’t know.” They were regular for about an hour. My doula is about an hour from us, so I really wanted to labor at home with our doula and then go to the birthing center. My midwife is about 30 minutes from us so I’m kind of trying to calculate all of this. My husband was like, “I think we should call the doula. Let’s go ahead and call her.” So we did. We called her and she was so sweet. She came and of course, as soon as she came, she took my phone away. She was like, “You don’t need to be timing your contractions.” She was like, “I’ll time your contractions.” She turned off the lights. She just really brought everything down. I actually ended up going to sleep. She put me in this exaggerated side–Meagan: Side-lying, yes. Hannah: She’s like, “I think you need to rest,” which was true. I hadn’t rested Sunday night. I hadn’t rested Monday night and this was now Tuesday. So I did. I fell asleep and I slept for about probably 30 minutes and then I woke up and I was contracting again. They were pretty regular and we were here about an hour or so. Then we said, “Okay, let’s go in. Now they were about 5 minutes apart. We went in and we got checked in. My midwife checked me and listened to the baby. Everything looked good. I got in the water because I really wanted my water birth and then within about an hour or two, it was like my contractions just stopped. I was just having prodromal labor now looking back. Meagan: Oh, yeah. Hannah: I didn’t register it during the days that it was going on. I actually ended up going to sleep. I remember I got out of the water and she had these stairs. I wanted to do the curb walking. I wanted to get them started again, but they could tell that I was very tired. They said, “Why don’t you just lay for a few minutes, and then you can start walking again?” I lay down and I went to sleep. I woke up and it was about 6:00 in the morning. I was so mad. Like, “What?” I had no contractions, nothing. We ended up going home. I cried the whole way home because there was no baby and all of this stuff. We went back home and slept. The next day, I was like, “I’m not timing my contractions. Whatever.” Around 1:00, I was having some contractions and my midwife sent me home with a TENS unit. I had never used it before so my husband was like, “Well, maybe just put it on and try it. We’ve never used it before.” So I put it on and within 15 minutes, my water broke. I was like, “Oh my goodness.” I called my husband in the bedroom. I was actually in the bedroom. He came running in. I was like, “My water just broke.” There was some meconium in the water, just a little bit. I called my midwife and she was like– we were about to eat lunch. It was about 1:00. She was like, “Well, how do you feel? How are contractions?” While I was on the phone with her, I had two big contractions that just felt very different than what I was having before. We were going to have lunch at the house and then go. I’m like, “No. Let’s go. Let’s go.”I labored in the car. It was very uncomfortable laboring in the car. By the time we got in the car, I was like, “Okay, this is the real thing.” It felt different. Meagan: This is labor. Hannah: I was like, “I’m in labor.” I just remember my husband doing the countdown like, “20 minutes. 15 minutes.” Meagan: Until you got to the birth center? Hannah: Until we got to the birth center. We made it and then again, of course, she had filled up the tub. I was a little nervous to get in the tub because I was like, “What if it stops?” Meagan: Sure. Hannah: But she really encouraged me. She was like, “If you want to get in the water, get in. Go ahead and get in. Relax.” So I was like, “Okay.” I got in the tub and I’m sitting there. They did slow down a little bit, but then I’m sitting there. My husband had actually stepped out to let people know, let my mom know, and my parents that we were back at the birth center. I remember hearing my midwife tell my doula, “You probably want to bring her husband back in.” I kind of thought, “Why? Why? I don’t know what’s going on.” Then within about 10 minutes, I hit transition. It hit so hard. I was just like, “Oh my goodness. I do not remember transition being like this.” My husband came in. He actually got in the birth pool with me. Meagan: Oh cool. Hannah: I really loved that. He was helping me through the contractions. My doula was giving me counterpressure and another thing at the birth center that I hadn’t had with my first birth was that she had the nitrous oxide. Meagan: Uh-huh, yeah. Hannah: I didn’t know if I wanted to use it, but I remember being in transition and I had in the back of my mind that I wanted to use it but I didn’t verbalize it. I looked up and my midwife was like, “Do you want to put this on?” “Yes, I do.” She noticed that I wanted it, so I did use that during transition and if anything, I think it just really helped to steady my breath because you have to hold it up and breathe that in, then breathe that out. I think it just helped to calm me and ground me if nothing else. Meagan: Yeah. Hannah: But that was super helpful and again, two things that I didn’t have with my first birth center birth. So I went through transition and then I just started feeling that pushy feel. I reached down and I could feel her head. I could just feel this head full of hair. I was like, “She’s going to have a lot of hair.” I was so excited. I had envisioned leaning back onto my husband in the birth pool and catching my own baby. That was what I really wanted to do. That was my vision for this VBAC. That’s really what I wanted. So I tried leaning back on my husband and it was just horrible. I couldn’t do it. I was like, “I need to be on all fours.” It was a huge birthtub, obviously, because we were both in there. I was like, “I just need to be on all fours.” My husband had already told me previously that he did not want to catch the baby which is fine. He was there to support me but that’s why I really wanted to catch the baby. But then I remember, I’m in this zone on the baby’s traveling down. I’m pushing the baby. I have my hand on her head. I remember hearing my husband ask my midwife, “Can I catch the baby?” I was like, “Yes.” Meagan: I love that. That’s awesome.Hannah: So he actually caught her. She came out. It seemed like I was pushing forever with her just because with my first, it was two pushes and she was out and with this one, I would feel her head come out and then with the end of the contractions, it would go back in, retract, and then come back in, then retract. It took forever. Once she was out, it was only about 20 minutes that I was pushing, but it felt really long. Meagan: I’m sure, yes. Hannah: But my labor was really short. It was about three hours from start to finish. Yeah. So prodromal labor did do something. It was working. Meagan: Yes, so for those listening, if you have a history of prodromal labor or are having prodromal labor, it’s not always this so I don’t want to tell you for sure that it’s always this, but there’s a very possible chance that you will have a precipitous birth once labor does begin. So anytime we have clients that are having prodromal labor, we are on extra alert because we do see those 3-5 hour births and a precipitous labor with prodromal labor happening especially if it’s been happening for days and days and days like in your case. Hannah: Yes. I was happy about that because it is a very defeating feeling to have prodromal labor and to feel like nothing is going on. Just to back up, that morning when she ended up sending us home, she did ask me before sending us home, “Do you want me to check you?” I never had a cervical check. I didn’t have any cervical checks during that labor so she did ask me, “Do you want me to check you?” I went back and forth, but I ended up deciding no because if I am not dilated, I am going to feel very defeated in the sense that I feel like I’ve been laboring on and off for two days and I just feel like it’s going to make things worse. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. Hannah: I’m going to feel like it’s not doing anything. I’m sure it was, but at the same time, if I am dilated far along enough, I’m going to know so it’s kind of one of those things that we wait out and we just decided that I wasn’t going to be checked. So through my whole labor, I never had a cervical check which was great. I was just in the zone doing my thing and we just decided we weren’t going to do any. It worked out really great with this labor. I know some people want to know and everyone’s different but with me, what if she checks me and I’m a 4 and I feel like I’ve been laboring for two days and get really discouraged? What if I’m a 2? I didn’t know what I was going to be. That worked out really well. But going back to her birth when she was born, her head came out. My husband was back there. He caught her and then her body came out later. She opened her eyes and she actually looked at my husband. It was so sweet. He was like, “I can see her!” Of course, I couldn’t see her. I’m like, “What does she look like?” It was really neat. She came out and he passed her to me. We were just in the water with her and it was so magical. It was everything I wanted even from my first. Even though my first birth went so well, it felt rushed being outside and then having to be rushed to bed. This was very much more on my terms in the sense that nobody was down there with me when I was pushing. I didn’t have any cervical checks. I was just very hands-on the whole time with my baby and I just really, really loved that. She was born. We were in the water. We stayed in the water for about 15 minutes just having that time with her. Then we got out of the water because I had decided that I would prefer to deliver the placenta out of the water. I know with water births it goes either way depending on your provider. We get out of the water and we just have this golden hour. I didn’t really realize anything was going on. It goes by quickly when you give birth. You don’t have a concept of time. My midwife came up and she was like, “You know what? It’s getting close to two hours and the placenta is not–”Meagan: Detached? Hannah: Yes. The placenta was not detached and the thing that was worrying her was that I wasn’t bleeding. She said, “I don’t see any bleeding.” Of course, in my mind, I’m thinking worst case scenario, placenta accreta. Is that what it’s called when it’s attaches? Meagan: Attaches to the scar, yeah. Hannah: So I was like, “Oh no.” Again, she was just very realistic and so they gave the baby to my husband. They got off the bed and went over there. She told me, “I have this water saline that I can inject into the umbilical cord.” She said, “We’ll wait ten minutes but if nothing happens, I’m going to call an ambulance and we’re going to have to transfer you to get the placenta out.” Oh, my. I had this beautiful birth. It was such a great experience. That was the last thing I wanted to do was to have to be transported. My midwife took out this shot and it’s huge. It was about this big, this really, really thick thing, and at first, I thought, “Where is she going to do that?” “Don’t worry, it’s going to go into the cord.” I remember I got the shakes. I don’t know if it was the postbirth shakes. I did feel very nervous. My doula started praying. She was a believer and my husband was praying that I wouldn’t have to transfer. So she injected it into the cord and then in about 10 minutes, I started bleeding and contracting. It was just the best feeling to feel like I was going to get this out. Meagan: Wow. Hannah: They stood me up and my midwife was on one side– no, her assistant was on one side, my doula was on the other just standing to give me some gravity and I was able to deliver the placenta with no transferring. Meagan: That’s awesome. Really awesome. Hannah: Yes, so it was one of those really scary moments. It didn’t last that long, but at the time, it felt like this could be really scary because we didn’t know what was going on. My midwife later, she didn’t tell me at the time of course, but later when she came and did visits, she was like, “I’ve never done that before, the injection.” She said, “I had just taken a class a couple of months ago about it and learned that you can do that with placentas if they’re not detaching.” She said, “I’ve never used it before.” I was like, “Oh my goodness.”Meagan: That’s really cool though. I want to research it. I’ve never heard of it. Hannah: I’d never heard of it either. She was kind of explaining it to me but not if it’s a placenta accreta and not if it’s ingrown obviously, but if it’s just kind of stuck, when you inject that water in it, it almost blows it up a little bit and it helps to move it. It gets it a little heavier where it comes down almost. What my midwife explained to me afterward is my placenta did have a big blood clot that had formed on it. She said it was almost like it had formed a suction. I don’t know if that makes sense. My blood clot was in the middle almost like it had a sucky. You know like those bath toys that have you stick on the bath is kind of how she explained it. She said that it wasn’t really stuck-stuck like ingrown, it was just suctioned because of that blood clot. I don’t really know why. Meagan: Very interesting. Hannah: Yeah, so that was something very interesting that happened after the whole beautiful birth was the whole placenta which was a whole other thing. I had never heard of that before and of course, my midwife had never used that technique, but we were very happy with the outcome. Meagan: I just Googled it really quick and it says, “Umbilical vein injection for management of retained placenta.” Hannah: Yes. Yes. Meagan: Cool! I am totally going to geek out on this. This is very, very cool and I’m so glad that you didn’t have to transfer because that would be a bummer. Right? That would be a bummer but oh my gosh. Your picture– if you guys are listening, go check out their picture on Instagram or Facebook. You and your husband are in the tub holding your baby. Oh, it gives you all of the feels. Hannah: I love it. I love it. That’s another thing. My doula actually just snapped that picture on my phone. She had asked me previously of course. She was like, “Do you want me to snap some pictures? Really, once you start pushing, my job is done.” Of course, unless there were other issues, but she was like, “I can just use your phone. I’ll snap some pictures and videos. If you don’t like them, you can delete them. They’re yours.” I was like, “Sure,” because when you’re in labor you just kind of feel disconnected and I love them. Even though they are just snapshots from her, and we have a video of the baby being born. I love it. I’m so glad that she did. Yes and that I have that as a memory.” So yes, we had our VBAC baby. She was my biggest baby by far. We were very surprised. I’m pretty petite and pretty small. My babies were 6 pounds, 11 ounces, 6 pounds, and 5 pounds, 13 ounces. So I’ve had pretty smaller babies. That’s normal for my family. All my sisters have had babies like that and my mom. I did feel like she was big when I was birthing but then I thought that maybe I just forgot what that feels like. When they weighed her, she was 8 pounds, 11 ounces. Meagan: Wow!Hannah: Yes. Compared to my other babies, she was a pretty hefty baby. I had no tearing and I think that letting my body work even though it was a little frustrating to feel her crown, then to feel like she was going back up. I think that allowing your body to stretch and work with your body, our bodies are made to do that and I just feel that if we give it time, I almost wanted in some instances to grit down and push, but I kept trying to slow myself down and have my hand there. Yeah. It was really happy. I’m so thankful. I had a great VBAC. It was a little scary with the placenta, but everything was really, really great. Meagan: Well, huge congratulations. Huge, huge congratulations and we learned something new about a way to help get out a retained placenta. So if you are having that and if you are having an out-of-hospital or even an in-hospital birth, maybe that’s something to ask your provider about and see. It looks like this Cochran data-based review was published in 2021 so definitely check that out especially if you have a history of that. That is such a great educational piece so thank you so much for that. Thank you for being here and sharing your beautiful stories. Hannah: Yeah. Thank you for having me and just thank you for everything you do. Like I said, that really encouraged me to have another baby but also to know that I could attempt this VBAC. I didn’t know it was possible and then just finding a community of other people who have gone through this. Thank you so much for everything you do and all of the research. I know that it takes a lot of time and effort, but thank you so much. Meagan: Absolutely, thank you. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan’s bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands