E16: Agnes Callard on Dark Empathy, Being Straussian vs Being Sincere, and Philosophical Progress

In this episode, Erik sits down with Agnes Callard to discuss her views on disagreement and progress, her inclination to question and operate outside of accepted societal structures, and why empathy is not always positive. Agnes Callard is a philosopher and essayist who specializes in ancient philosophy, ethics, and Socratic communication. If you're looking for an ERP platform, check out our sponsor, NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/UPSTREAM Upstream is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn about sponsorships, email [email protected] or head to www.turpentine.co RECOMMENDED PODCAST:  Every week investor and writer of the popular newsletter The Diff, Byrne Hobart, and co-host Erik Torenberg discuss today’s major inflection points in technology, business, and markets – and help listeners build a diversified portfolio of trends and ideas for the future. Subscribe to “The Riff” with Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg: https://link.chtbl.com/theriff TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Episode Preview (02:45) Progress in philosophy (05:13) Tensions between academic and public philosophy (07:56) Does philosophy make the world a better place? (09:11) Consulting philosophers (11:42) Why don't we go to philosophers instead of therapists? (15:28) Sponsor: NetSuite  (16:56) Making the case for philosophy (19:22) Sometimes the more you know ain't so (23:46) Benefit of self-delusion (26:05) What do people misunderstand about Socrates?  (27:23) Benefits of conceptual literacy  (30:02) Irony in today's culture (35:10) Status games (37:30) Being Straussian vs being sincere (44:15) Is Tyler Cowan Straussian? (46:00) Agnes' investment into the biggest cultural war issues of our time  (48:28) Why is John Mill's conception of free speech worn out? (50:12) Free speech is the freedom to listen (52:34) How do we justify hierarchy? (56:59) Equality is not a moral principle  (58:14) Darwinian morality (01:01:02) Dark empathy  (01:07:11) Intellectual masturbation (01:09:28) Love, marriage, and living philosophically (01:15:48) What are the questions Agnes wants to find answers to? (01:17:20) Did we just do philosophy for the past hour? TWITTER: Agnes' Twitter: @AgnesCallard Erik's Twitter: @eriktorenberg Upstream : @upstream__pod Please support our sponsors: Beehiiv | Shopify Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox. 🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months. Shopify: https://shopify.com/torenberg for a $1/month trial period Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of all ecommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries. From their all-in-one ecommerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/torenberg. This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected].